The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Zero in the affirmative. You have entered an incorrect email address! Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Nope. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. Too Many Accidents And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. Ron, It has nothing to do with Glock. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Why are Milwaukee police Sig Sauer guns accidentally going off? Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? The problem is non-existent. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Third, Glock has had problems, too. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? . This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. He probably had a double until it was over. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. JTF-2 is the only unit in. Dude, your story is THREE years old. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! You arent a gunfighter, either. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. They are being replaced with Glocks. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. One hell of a conspiracy. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. 1:07. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. How about something more relevant. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM selling the 365 with strikers breaking? Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Either the gun is defective or its not. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Good job! Marine vet ICE agent sues Sig Sauer for $10M claiming pistol shot him It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. Does the P365 have a similar reputation for spontaneous - SIG Talk The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Theres a couple of possibilities. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Was it his fault? Where is that defect now? And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. But breaking news here, skippy. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. Alec Baldwin fatally shoots cinematographer, injures director on set of Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. They function as commanded every time. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. Weird how that might happen. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Yaaay! The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Liberal, Conservative. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. PDs are dropping them from contracts. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Detective sues Sig Sauer after she says her holstered P320 handgun I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! Kyle . OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. No picture for me. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. Trust a P365 with your life. Excellent work. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. (It wasnt my gun). Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. They admitted their problem and fixed it. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. ALL OF THEM. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. That focus drifts. It has been flawless so far. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. there is no better. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design.
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